Jul. 13th, 2010 12:00 am
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Taken from this Plurk

Liquid's relationship with FOXHOUND.

Hm... that is a complicated one. I've developed some headcanon from our delightful FOXHOUND players at FM, but I'm rather nervous about it. In a way, everyone in FOXHOUND has their place. Liquid doesn't display any sorrow when they die, but why would he? It's war. Death is something he's used to, something he expected. In a way, he wanted them to fail in order for Snake to reach him. But at the same time, they are his men (and woman). He respects them. He may even like them, (I have headcanon that he was at least friendly with Decoy Octopus). But it is hard for him to acknowledge anything like that.

And he definitely has little to no love of Mantis. XD Mostly because Mantis hates everything and probably took little hesitation in telling Liquid what a bad person he was on a regular basis. Not to mention the lack of any type of privacy when he was around. So Mantis would be respected, but not liked much, if at all. Although he'd admire his chaos. I have ysobritish as being aware of Mantis' intentions far more than he was Ocelot's. Mantis doesn't bother to hide things, after all.

On that note, I think he was more respectful of Wolf and Raven than of Ocelot and Mantis. Both of them were people who were Big Boss', and both of them are essentially the voices of reason even though both are about as dysfunctional as he is. Although he orders them around, he's shown to take their points of view very seriously. Raven in particular, I think, he spoke to a lot; Raven knew a lot more than you'd expect about the twins. I'm not 100% on his relationship with Wolf, but I think he got along relatively well with her. I doubt they spoke too much, but when they did speak, it was probably awkward but polite. And generally tolerable, if not openly friendly. Liquid had to learn to be friendly at SP, after all. He's more used to and comfortable with the chain of command than anything outside of it.

As to Ocelot... I think they got along, but not closely. Obviously Ocelot was using him and Liquid fell for it, possibly half-aware of what was going on but not knowing the scale of it. So neither of them trusted the other or liked each other; they just tolerated each other because they were useful to each other. I think their relationship was a lot tenser. Liquid seemed to think Ocelot needed to be kept more in line. And he wasn't above berating him quite harshly when he failed.

Also yes, there was probably awkward sexual tension on his side towards Wolf. Because boobs. But he's good at ignoring that kind of thing when he has something else to focus on.

Liquid and Shadow Moses. There were probably other places to be used in the past. Why here?

Firstly, we have to point out one thing. Campbell explicitly says that FOXHOUND was assigned there. However, once he had Metal Gear, he could easily have relocated. Shadow Moses was a science facility; it didn't have the defences it could. It had defences, but they were minimal compared to actual bases, and some of them were likely only installed within the week or so they were there before they made their demands. It would not have been easy to take REX off the Island, but it would have been possible. Yet Liquid, when asked by Ocelot, chose to stay at Shadow Moses. To make it his base of operations. Even though he knew they would likely be wiped out via airstrike. It could be blamed on arrogance, but I think, by that point everything had narrowed. As the game goes on, Liquid grows steadily less and less focused and more and more unhinged. It's interestingly paralleled with his level of undress.

I think, by the time he decided to stay at Shadow Moses he had already come to the decision that nothing else mattered until he took Snake down. However, prior to Shadow Moses, there were other opportunities, I'm sure. After the POW incident, I have him as having been in and out of hospital for the better part of a year; he was rescued shortly before the Outer Heaven incident, indicating that the Patriots wanted him back solely as a backup in case Snake failed to take down Big Boss. As a result, they focused more on his physical recovery than his mental. Degredation due to trauma would have been massive. Yet despite that, I think in a way he still felt fettered. He'd been tied to the Patriots for a long time and even with his indomitable will, he didn't see it as being possible to take them on alone. And right when he would have been able to, the news of Big Boss' defeat would have come in.

Still recovering, he would have been distracted by his anger. And he would still have been without allies. I think that at the time, he decided to focus more on finding out what the Patriots were currently doing. What he'd missed. As a result he became more aware of the Genome Army project, and of Snake's actions. However, I don't think he plotted the Shadow Moses takeover too deeply. I think he kept looking for opportunities, but didn't see them. While he is reckless, he's not suicidal and he'd already been massively damaged by that point mentally. Anger clouds judgement and by the time he joined FOXHOUND, I think he was honestly more bitter than he'd ever been before. Liquid isn't the type of person to be inactive, so his lack of movement towards the Patriots is definitely hard to explain but I think he was honestly trying to find opportunities. The death of Big Boss would have shaken him - if he's an inferior clone, what hope would he have of repeating the same events successfully? Despite that, he wasn't willing to just sit back. He wanted to prove his strength but even desires as strong as his can't move mountains.

I think, in that time, he was probably preparing. I don't think the Genome Army were assigned to him. I think he may have even tracked them down. himself, or set one of his spies to do them. He definitely spent some time setting up spies, which would have taken time. And as impulsive as he is, he values information. He can be patient. And during that time he focused on making sure he could not fail. By 2005, I think his patience had not run out so much as he saw an unbeatable opportunity. So when they were assigned to Shadow Moses, he took only a short time to decide this was the time to move. He didn't see the parallels, or the fact that he was essentially following Big Boss' path.

His intent was both the same and different to his father's. Not just to do what he did better, but also to take out his anger on the world. He mentions towards the end that he expects the world of war that Outer Heaven would create to send the world into a spiral of war and death. And that could only result in the end of everything. By that point, he had lost all faith in humanity as a whole. He had seen the worst of people from the wrong side, seen the way people were so easily led and the way people like the Patriots could do what they wanted without trouble. He'd been raised solely for war, without affection or kinship and he came, in the back of his head, to feel a profound dislike for the "sheep" of the world and the "wolves" that preyed on them. Neither side was better than the other, neither side was "good" to him. So he didn't care who won. He wanted to stir them to fight. He didn't care what happened to them by that time.

I'm not saying he'd become entirely uncaring, so much as he'd simply given up on people. If they were worth the effort of saving, they would try to save themselves. If not, it would weed out the unnecessary and the weak. But again, as the game went on, Snake became the thing he focused on the most. And everything else took a backseat. He only speaks of the Patriots after Snake is tied up and unconscious on Metal Gear. His anger leads him by then and I don't think he even quite knows what he's saying. Everything has come down to Snake. His anger at Big Boss, at Solid Snake, at the Patriots. He forgot why he hated the Patriots, he simply drowned in his anger. And at that point, he sealed everything. His own safety didn't concern him, his army didn't, nothing did except revenge. In that way I think the ghost of Liquid actually was pretty realistic in that he was rational once more - rational enough to put the Patriots over Snake himself. Because Liquid is not always reckless and loud. He's not always angry and violent. He has control. He loses it gradually as things start to go worse and his own issues rear their head. And by the time 2009 had come around, the ghost had had time to recover his senses.

I noticed you said you thought Octopus and Liquid might be friendly. What's your thought process for this?

Firstly, bear with me; to be honest, this one is tied in to Gull's Octopus who was probably the most loyal of the group. However this does have some basis in facts. Firstly, consider that Octopus was the only one that Liquid did not expect to FIGHT Snake. Octopus' speciality was to gather information and possibly to shank unsuspecting people in the back. Why would Liquid trust Octopus to even join them? Liquid values combat above everything else and he admits to having spies. Why would he need Octopus?

Octopus was an older member of FOXHOUND, meaning he was probably around BEFORE the Big Boss events. Why would Octopus, who had seen how badly things would go and who had NO reason to be there at all, have come with them? He doesn't have any incentive to join FOXHOUND's betrayal. He is the only member of FOXHOUND who is not  given a reason for following Liquid.  In that regard, Octopus is the odd one out. While his identity is said to get confused by his mimicry, he's also the least mentally damaged of all of FOXHOUND. From what little we know of him, he doesn't have any tragedy, any loyalty to Big Boss, any suicidal tendencies.

What are your views on Liquid and sexuality?

Now this is an interesting one, especially considering how I tend to play him. Unlike Solid and Big Boss, Liquid is given no real basis for any canon sexuality or view on sex. Unlike both of the above, Liquid also appears to be have been raised in a very strict way. Despite his recklessness, Liquid has a high level of discipline and self-control. This is also the basis for my playing him as disliking alcohol and cigarettes; Liquid does not indulge in vices that aren't battle related. However, I don't think he's a virgin.

That said, I do think that he's the type of person who views sex in a rather casual light. To him, it's neither "special" or worthy of obsession; when it happens it's nice, and he does try to be good at it, but he doesn't think about it often. Battle comes first. His targets come first. Liquid is a man that unfailingly focuses. That doesn't mean he has no sexual desire; despite being incapable of reproduction, his body functions well. Physical closeness, unwanted or invited touching, sexual thoughts, all of those will provoke a reaction. He may not act on it; he has self-control, after all. But on the other hand, if the other person seems willing, he likely will.

I think also, that Liquid is someone who doesn't think about sexual taboos; he has things he won't do, but they're out of personal preference, not out of a societally ingrained belief. Liquid is someone who has been isolated from social norms; the Patriots needed a soldier not a person capable of interacting with society. And they wouldn't want him to grow too attached to civilisation. I have it as headcanon that he was home schooled, particularly with the revelation from the Mission Handbook that he was in active combat at thirteen. On top of that, his name is unknown to even the highest authorities.

Liquid is not someone who was ever meant to be a person. His education would have been focused on the points the Patriots needed him to know, and he would have been steered away from contradicting information. As a result, I think he probably picked up on the big things once he was freed into society at large, but dismissed many of the littler things as unnecessary societal developments. On top of that, I doubt he had much, if any, sexual education. He learnt almost everything about sex from actually doing it. And when he does it, as I said, he tries to do it well. Liquid is competitive in all regards, and passionate about anything he does. If it's worth doing, he'll do it energetically and he'll try to be the best at it.

That said, there is no one way to be best. Different people like different things and Liquid would therefore still be awkward the first time he was with someone (although he'd try to hide it), Once he has a grasp on what they want (no jokes please) he's more confident with them. On the other hand, I don't think Liquid is very good with being hit on. He prefers to stay in control wherever possible and while it's flattering to think he's desired, he's suspicious of why. In the end, however, Liquid is not a person who thinks about sex often. It's fun, but it's not his priority. While he has the desire, he prefer to be approached even while he doesn't know how to deal with it. It would bother him far more to approach someone and be rejected than it would to be approached and deal with the awkwardness.

When it comes to orientation... well, that's up to personal belief. I play Liquid as being particularly uncaring of gender; he doesn't know or care about taboos on that front. If he's attracted to someone, he's generally drawn to them as a person. Appearances play a part, but gender does not. He is, however, more awkward with women than men. Part of this is due to gender imbalance; there are more male soldiers than female ones shown in MGS, although the female ones tend to be exceptionally skilled when they do show up.

Like I mentioned above, Liquid views sex casually. It's not a statement of a relationship with him. He will tend to be kinder to people he's slept with, but that's generally because they're people he's already fond of. He's paranoid enough to distrust strangers who hit on him without prior knowledge. It isn't a step forward in their relationship so much as an extension of what's already available. He doesn't expect it, or demand it. He simply accepts it.

I have Liquid as being particularly distrustful of physical contact if it isn't related to combat. This ties into that earlier line; most people do not get close to Liquid. He doesn't have experience with affection, with love, or with friendship. While he can be friendly, he doesn't understand proper friendship. More, he doesn't dare to reach out for it, because he's so sure that a) he doesn't deserve it, and b) nobody would want it. He views himself as a tool, a soldier without anything else to him. As a result, while I mentioned I don't think he's a virgin, I also don't think he has a lot of experience with sex. He's fine with it when he has nothing else going on; even Liquid needs to relax sometimes. But he would not accept it while he was focused on other tasks. And again, it isn't important in his mind. It simply is.

What was Liquid's early life like?

It would be a lie to say that Liquid was ever entirely stable. As I mentioned above, I believe Liquid was never intended to fit into society. While Solid was raised as a person, in families, in society, Liquid was not. His life at that time would have been due to the whim of the Patriots. I doubt he had anything resembling a "family" or even a parental figure. Perhaps Zero might have attained favourable stance in that front, but nothing would ever replace the idol of Big Boss in his eyes. In his youth, Big Boss would have seemed like an incredible person.

I think Liquid was never the bright and happy type. His youth would have been a whirlwind of education and training. Isolated from other people, he would have developed little to no social skills. I believe he would have done almost anything to get out from under that thumb. Liquid would have been an even more energetic child and one that was steadily being groomed for use as a tool. Yuyu gave me some food for thought a while ago; Big Mama's words in MGS4 hint that she may have had contact with Liquid in the past. If it is true that she did not know Ocelot was no longer possessed, as the MGS4 guide Kojipro approved claimed, then her words about "knowing him better" would be referring to Liquid. I doubt she ever addressed herself to him as his parent, but I think if that is right then she must have at least met him on multiple occasions. Or if not met him, been in contact with him. It's possible, although not probable, that Big Mama was one of the spies he mentions; someone who fed him information.

At any rate, his life remained steady for the first thirteen years of his life. The MGS1 Mission Handbook stated that he entered active combat at thirteen; my headcanon is that this is where he also first killed. It was not long afterwards that he encountered Big Boss, although he was not with him at Outer Heaven for long. Several months to a year, perhaps? At first, I don't believe Big Boss knew who he was. During this time, Big Boss tried to push him to reach his full potential, an actuality that was read wrong by the socially incapacitated teenager. It's likely that Big Boss grew impatient with Liquid's desire to be the best there was, and his stubbornness and pride, and attempted to break him of those habits. That too would have been read wrong. It was during this time that he developed the starting points of his complex regarding his Father and Brother. At this point he came to hate him a little, blaming him for his deficiencies. Eventually, they parted ways again, perhaps through the Patriots' demands (not that Big Boss would have complained, I'm sure).

Assuming him to be around 14 or close to 15 at the time, that leaves a three year gap before he joined the SAS. At some point during this time, he also joined the SIS, likely through the Patriots' interventions. While Liquid could have legally been working from the age of 16, he did not have the experience the SIS would have required. He was also not in the SIS for long. Considering the average time taken to complete the SAS selection route, he would have been 17, close to 18 when he started. It took at least three months to complete the SAS selection and he was 18 at the time. So between the ages of 14 and 18, he was likely working illegally under the Patriots' orders. The lack of morals that his upbringing would have caused meant he was likely dancing the border between sanity and insanity several times. Yet still, I think at this time he was at least functional. While he was likely plotting to escape the Patriots' grasp even then, being so young and under their thumb meant he wouldn't have dared take the step. He'd want to be a) legal, and b) have enough knowledge of normal society to survive on his own.

I think, considering his combat history he likely clung to every battle. It would be his only source of joy. And considering the more one kills, the less one feels about it, he would have lost almost all sense of unhappiness regarding death. It ceased to have meaning. Obviously he sought to preserve his own life, but he thought nothing of killing. At some point between 16 and 18 he also learnt to fly. He was likely training in it earlier, considering how long it can take to become proficient. Even someone as quick at learning as Liquid could not master it that fast. Then came the Gulf War...

What does FM-Liquid currently (June 2011) feel for Vaderquid?

Now that is a pretty tricky one. Firstly, we have to clarify one point. Liquid does not understand his emotions very well if they are not anger, fear, sorrow or hatred. Even in FM, as well adjusted as he's become, he's still confused about emotional situations that don't involve negative emotions. And he is firmly in love with Major Ocelot ([livejournal.com profile] fancy_shooting ), after over a year of being with him. HOWEVER. I view Liquid as someone who does not tie himself down without need. Even while dating Ocelot, he's still a casual player, and he sees nothing wrong with showing affection and adoration for people he's close to. He doesn't segregate people into friends, family, lovers. He'll sleep with his friends, has slept with most of his family, has tried to kill some of said friends and family... If you're close to him, you're just close to him. He'll use the words because people expect them, but he won't think of them the same way as people do. They're just words. Feelings are much more complicated. With that said, Liquid's feelings for his alternate are not love in the romantic sense, although he does love him. The thought hasn't even crossed his mind.

Vaderquid frustrates him a lot, unnerves him even more, deep down. He's wary of becoming like him. Part of him even views the man as weak and that frustrates him even more. It brings up the thought that he too could end up as weak as that, if one of his alternates could. Yet despite that, he does not think of Vaderquid as "self", either. His alternates are separate people to him, he is fixed on that thought now. He wants to fix the man. To make him the way he should be. A strong person who never surrenders or accepts fate.

Despite the frustration, he just wants Vaderquid to be happy. If that means hurting him, so be it; it'll work out in the end. 

Date: 2011-04-26 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fakefse.livejournal.com

Date: 2011-04-26 03:34 am (UTC)
starofchaos: louis cyphre (I REALLY DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS)
From: [personal profile] starofchaos

Date: 2011-04-26 03:52 am (UTC)
starofchaos: louis cyphre (Get off!)
From: [personal profile] starofchaos

Date: 2011-04-26 05:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fakefse.livejournal.com


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